suhanasharma524

I've been following the Speedster thread(s) about reversed polarity on the Fountek driver. I like and respect Paul, but when did it become his responsibility to run this down? If you get it for free, you've already gotten your money's worth. Kits are a different matter (IMO)

I've been on DIY boards for at least a dozen years, and can't remember a time when everybody had such thin skin. Have we all gotten so sensitive, we can't question the quality or character of a particular design? Seems to me somebody beside the designer might have tried changing polarity. It seems like a lot of people were living with it and didn't hear it, didn't know what to expect, or assumed that it's supposed to sound that way cause it came from somebody "respected". Hats off to Paul for finding the problem.

Just cause a bunch of people built a design, and enjoy it, doesn't mean you or I have to. After hearing the Overnight Sensations and Nano Neos, I was pretty underwhelmed. Then again I don't listen to much that was produced after 1990, and certainly not overly compressed MP3's. The respective owners however were delighted with their boxes. So are they "good" designs?

QC on drivers, room acoustics, hearing,... all play a giant roll in the quality of sound. If you are going to publish a design, be prepared for being blamed -- your fault or not. ( I had a guy who melted a cap on the crossover board decide I didn't know what I was doing ) If you build someone else's design, don't expect free support for life either.

I know I had a design with a major mistake in the crossover I published. Somebody asked me about it, sure as he11, my mistake. (I used the right component just labeled it wrong on the web page)

Questions, criticism, and dialog are how we all improve. (I'm sure there are people who love their Pontiac Azteks)
Designers: please don't take it personally and storm off the board like your manhood and patriotism have been questioned.
Builders: Be reasonable in the time you expect to get for free. Most people will help, but just cause you don't get your question answered in 30 seconds, doesn't mean you're being ignored.

Amen.

...Questions, criticism, and dialog are how we all improve. (I'm sure there are people who love their Pontiac Azteks)...

Walter White?

That was well said.

I kinda wish that someone was pi$$ed at me for a design flaw, 'cuz that would mean I'm somebody around here....

OT, but any chance of you making it up to PHX for the get together on June 22?

Mark

Just want to say I'm in agreement.

I've also made mistakes in publishing designs, attentive builders have asked and I've fixed the goofs - easy as that. I have been long overdue publishing the 4ohm Pecorino (RS100 based in a 4.5x7x5" container) because I don't know if I have the correct polarity - I need to re-measure paying more attention.

People question my work due to the crossover parts count all the time - and there are many possible answers to that, but in the end if someone thinks that makes a bad design, I don't really care if they don't build it. If it's in the design, I thought it made a usefully audible improvement. It could be that I'm not a magician with crossovers and I could get something I'm happy with using fewer parts, but in the end is that really what matters? I've never been sure, so my current project is intended to give me a design I can perhaps live with using very low parts count, lower order slopes, all that.

People complain that I don't publish cut sheets and detailed box assembly instructions. Hello? It's DIY. If you can't figure out how to build the box, start a thread and ask - lots of helpful people around. The way I build boxes is not the requirement - the baffle is as far as that goes.

In the end, it comes down to the fact that every DIY event I've brought (serious) speakers to has validated that others like the sound too. Even the first one was a design I *knew* didn't sound right and had problems, but was <$10 in parts so was a silly/fun entry to start the day with. That had no competition either... but the next two I walked home with a win (Abouriou and Ansonica). I've also heard designs at those events that receive high praise and sound poor (I've seen measurements from some, and every time I see my ears heard something that shows up clearly in measurements.

Who knows. I do this for fun (see the Marzemino, which I may never finish because I have no place to put the thing except my back yard! But I'm still building it...) Others find it helpful to have designs that fit their needs, so I share them. Free for DIY use.

In the end, there are a lot of back-seat drivers here and a lot of hyperbole spread as absolute truth. Who knows.

Enjoy your time. Don't fret the rest.

I agree with all that's been said, but I can only speak from a builder's perspective, since I haven't designed anything yet.

Personally, I'd rather someone pointed out any errors that I make--in a courteous way--so I can correct them (Wait, I said how much stuffing? That can't be right.)
Otherwise, people paint you with a taint, having forgotten that we're all fallible humans.

Thanks Lou - well said. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Everyone is doing the best they can.
It's a hobby - it's supposed to be FUN!

I've been following the Speedster thread(s) about reversed polarity on the Fountek driver. I like and respect Paul, but when did it become his responsibility to run this down? If you get it for free, you've already gotten your money's worth. Kits are a different matter (IMO)

Hey Lou - Let me say first that as a builder, I totally respect you and all the other designers that have taken the time to make this DIY community into a flourishing hotbed of innovation and value. I've built your Piccolatas and love them.

As the one who started this whole "Speedster polarity discussion", I feel the need to respond and discuss a couple of your points. Firstly, I did purchase this as a kit, and when I directly approached the seller of the kit with my results, they responded - "it's your room, we listened to the design, and it's fine." It wasn't until a few follow ups that they informed me that Paul was looking into it - I would have hoped they would look into it themselves, as they obviously have the parts.

Is it Paul's responsibility to track it down? As a designer, definitely not - He is not responsible for the changes that manufacturers make, nor is he expected to monitor the performance of his "free" designs. HOWEVER, as a contributing member of the community, I do feel that it is the responsibility of all of us, when able, to help out. If we ignore opportunities to provide feedback, criticism, and fixes, we essentially are going against the very nature of what the DIY community should be. I never expected or demanded a response from Paul as a designer. I hoped for a response from Paul as a member of the community who obviously takes pride in his work.

I've been on DIY boards for at least a dozen years, and can't remember a time when everybody had such thin skin. Have we all gotten so sensitive, we can't question the quality or character of a particular design?

This statement confused me a bit, are you referring to designers having thin skin? Or builders assuming that designers cannot live with constructive criticism and withholding it instead of making it public? I disagree with the former - I haven't seen any designer get ultra upset or defensive when their designs are questioned or criticized (questioning and criticism is nearly nonexistent though). I do agree with the latter, although it may not be due to thin or thick skin. I do feel that in the midst and effort of building a DIY design, a "veil" can be placed over the perspective of builders. No one wants to admit to themselves - "I spent about 25 hours building and finishing this kit - it sounds terrible".

Seems to me somebody beside the designer might have tried changing polarity. It seems like a lot of people were living with it and didn't hear it, didn't know what to expect, or assumed that it's supposed to sound that way cause it came from somebody "respected". Hats off to Paul for finding the problem.

I agree - That was my first thought when I measured mine and saw a confirming graph from bkeane1259. I guess I didn't jump directly into trying it because I wanted to give Paul a chance to take a look. I tend to respect the original intentions and specs of designers. I've dabbled in graphic design, and nothing annoys me more than when I provide a logo or font design, and the end user "adds" their own flavor to it. As far as "people living with it", I'm with you, that worries me a bit. I would have hoped - from the community, not Paul - that this would have been uncovered sooner.

Questions, criticism, and dialog are how we all improve. (I'm sure there are people who love their Pontiac Azteks)
Designers: please don't take it personally and storm off the board like your manhood and patriotism have been questioned.
Builders: Be reasonable in the time you expect to get for free. Most people will help, but just cause you don't get your question answered in 30 seconds, doesn't mean you're being ignored.

Going back to your "are we getting to PC around here?" statement - Do you feel that builders are the ones who need to be more un-PC and provide more direct feedback and criticism? Or are you saying designers need to be more un-PC and realize that their free designs do not need to be supported past introduction.

Thanks.

I gotta say I feel this is a good thing to discuss. I'm amazed how popular some designs are where the only published info is an on axis PCD screen shot. Where's the confirmed result. I personally measured a friend's OS that did not measure well. I didn't build it so I never said anything. And not to pick on Paul cause I see this with a lot of designs. Criticism should be embraced. I recently had someone post their thoughts on one of my designs (different forum) and it was very frank and accurate. I really appreciated it. Really! How else do we improve.

Builders: pick designs with the data to back it up. Builder reviews don't mean much. Anyone who just finished their 7th coat of poly on $30/sq.ft. Of veneer is going to only have good things to say.

I think the problem comes from the way people socially interact these days. They need to get out and interact with people face to face more IMO.

Won't help. I was in the breakroom at work yesterday and saw five employees sitting down at the table. No conversation, they were all online or texting with their phones. Its madness. I feel old, and I'm 'the computer guy'.

Won't help. I was in the breakroom at work yesterday and saw five employees sitting down at the table. No conversation, they were all online or texting with their phones. Its madness. I feel old, and I'm 'the computer guy'.

I've not yet sent a text message via phone to this day. I know one day it will come.

Won't help. I was in the breakroom at work yesterday and saw five employees sitting down at the table. No conversation, they were all online or texting with their phones. Its madness. I feel old, and I'm 'the computer guy'.

I'm in a volleyball league. A bunch of the players grab their phones in between every game, not just between matches. They've got maybe five minutes to get a drink, take a breather and get back on the court ready to play, but they spend most of that time checking email and/or texting.

dlr

Yup people have seemed to get offended awful easily lately. People get criticized and the next thing you know here come personal attacks. This seems to be happenenig everywhere, not just in the forums. I think the problem comes from the way people socially interact these days. They need to get out and interact with people face to face more IMO.

+1000
I deactivated all social media last year. People aren't people anymore, they are keyboards and monitors.

Won't help. I was in the breakroom at work yesterday and saw five employees sitting down at the table. No conversation, they were all online or texting with their phones. Its madness. I feel old, and I'm 'the computer guy'.

Same for me. Zero conversation at break. Very very sad.

Won't help. I was in the breakroom at work yesterday and saw five employees sitting down at the table. No conversation, they were all online or texting with their phones. Its madness. I feel old, and I'm 'the computer guy'.

For the record, I am a huge fan of communication in any form whether it be FB, texting, chat rooms, phone calls, emails, chatting at the dinner table, or yelling across the room. I see no real drawbacks to any form of communication, provided it is not limited to one form, and only one form. Increasingly, I have to tell my friends to stop sending me forty texts telling me about their day - each of them three or four words long. Concise messaging is important, but so is waiting for an answer before sending a second, third, fourth, and 27th text.

With that out of the way, I watched a young couple walking their dogs and each of them had some kind of smart phone in their hands - and they were texting each other. That is going too far. Texting is ubiquitous in our culture now, and will never go away. It is their business if they want to text instead of turn around and talk, so more power to them - at least they are communicating in some form.

My biggest issue with the texting craze is the sheer amount of a$$holes I see staring at their friggen iPhone, typing away while trying to maneuver a 3000lb vehicle through heavy traffic. Reminds me of driving in the snow - we all overestimate our abilities to drive under less than ideal conditions. It has been "banned" in Sioux Falls, but not enforced. I have always been a defensive driver, and now I have yet another danger on the road to avoid.

Designs are designs, and nothing more. Given the liberty with which many people take with duplicating them, it is surprising there are not more "I built your design, but..." threads out there.

And yes, there are a lot of private concerns about a lot of designs, none of which is ever made permanently public. As a community, we are either unwilling to offer criticism or we are unwilling to accept it, and some designers seem unwilling to defend their design decisions. We can have a lot of fun attacking an outsider en masse, but when it comes to some of the poorer designs we tend to keep mum about it.

I'm amazed how popular some designs are where the only published info is an on axis PCD screen shot. Where's the confirmed result? Criticism should be embraced. Builders: pick designs with the data to back it up. Builder reviews don't mean much. Anyone who just finished their 7th coat of poly on $30/sq.ft. Of veneer is going to only have good things to say.

I agree that criticism should be at least acknowledged. Embraced- maybe not. Your first statement above basically defines my posted data, and that makes me think you think I'm not showing all of my cards. If you use measured data in PCD, and they were adapted and implemented correctly to the design's criteria, then you shouldn't require a proof of result FR measurement plot. It's that accurate. It's when the sim is sub-par even when using measured data that makes it no longer valid.

And- I disagree with the last statement. Sure- first sound means it works, and that's a happy moment. If it does not work optimally, then good things still won't be said if you know what you're doing.

I recall having to reverse the polarity from posting about my Canvas awhile back, and I acknowledged the issue and corrected it. There's one for me.

Another of my designs has been inquired about having a VERY DEEP and REALLY NARROW (ie- 150 Hz bandwidth, -50dB, above 2k) reverse null in the posted version that is supposed to be in phase, and FWIW- the builder could not hear a difference between the 2. Apparently I did not either, so I left it as simmed in PCD BECAUSE I was wrong before when I questioned the results PCD gave me on the Canvas' tweeter polarity. Since it was basically inaudible, is that still a designing-sin? I think not- I trusteth my earses(sic).

Later,
Wolf

I"m not exactly sure how to respond to Lou's post, however I will say that, even though I'm not in his hobby for money, I have always felt a sense of responsibility whenever I post a design. I know how many hours it takes to build a set of speakers, and that it often costs hundreds of dollars in raw parts. So I really want to make sure that what I'm putting out there is essentially guaranteed to entertain, if built properly (of course).

I don't expect most people have access to Frequency Response measurement tools (not to mention USING those tools properly, which, as I've said many times, is a science in and of itself). I understand that people build other people's designs for the same reason people follow recipes in cookbooks... not everyone has the time/expertise/patience/etc. to learn about food chemistry, try different ratios of ingredients, or tweak recipes repeatedly. There's no shame in that. I don't believe someone needs to be an expert in order to enjoy the act of making something with his own hands.

What's hardest on me, the designer, is in situations like this where specs shift, but the manufacturer doesn't tell anyone. I have given up most of my evening free time over the last 2-3 weeks because of this Speedster thing--and I'm about to devote even more to track down what's "changed" about the HiVi/Dayton combo in the Swope series. It SUCKS!

I want to make one last point here: if this were all just about someone's personal taste; ie: someone went on a message board and said, "I don't like Paul's design X," I wouldn't take it the same way. I liked my design; I'm sorry the other guy didn't. Tastes differ; that's life. In cases like this, however, what I designed, and what the builder is hearing are two different things, and that is maddening.

suhanasharma524

Sunday, May 12, 2013

What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too ...

What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around here?

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Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

Re: What are you supposed to get with a free design? Are we getting too PC around he

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